My mom has one in her barn that I plan to bring home to my place and work on it with the boy and then show him how to drive a three speed. It needs brakes, exhaust, six volt battery, and probably tires. It has a freshly rebuilt(1980's) 1951 engine in it. It also has a six volt electric fuel pump that we put on it.

I don't think it was ever titled. It was used to pull farm wagons and to teach the Andrews women how to drive.

I'll be adding pictures and links to stuff that I need to use for this project.

Sounds like a cool project for you and the boy

I had posted about it on LV when it first opened up. Still haven't started on this yet.

I remember that now

I see those every once in a while. Some of the local vets have them tucked away. I didn't realize they were 6 volt... But I suppose based on the era they would be.

It's positive ground too.

Finally found a starter if I ever need one.

http://www.accountwizard.com/clients/sho...tem&itemid=3339

Looks like mostly OEM overstock parts here and it's only a hour drive to pick them up in person at the counter.

http://www.willysoverland.com/index.php

Years ago, toward the late 80's, I heard a rumor that these were available as surplus but they were shipped in a crate packed with grease. You had to accept the grease to get at the jeep.

http://www.geneseeproducts.com/

I went looking for 6 volt batteries today. None of the stores in town has them in stock. Online, Optima has one for $145.00. I think for that much I can afford to convert to 12 volt for almost the same price. (Alternator, battery, alternator pulley, and coil to start.)

Sometimes you can find them in unlikely places. Some golf carts use them, and they are used in home power rigs too.

Like here:

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/products.folder/battery-folder/concorde.html

And some here if you dig in the products section:

http://backwoodssolar.com/

And here too:

http://www.ebatteriestogo.com/Golf_Cart_Batteries_UPG.htm

There might be used ones around out there too. Perhaps someone wrecked a golf cart...

I got one from our shop at work. When the six volt deep cycle batteries don't last long enough to run the backup AC, they get changed out. I think it will still start ok. I have it charging tonight and it does seem to be taking a charge.

All I have to do is take in a junk lawn mower battery so they have a core to trade in for the one I got from them. They saved me quite a bit of money to start.

Thanks for the links, Rod. I'm going to give it a try. All I had to do was get some bulk battery cable and some ends that would fit the different battery.

Yeah, I imagine you'd need custom cables for whatever one you got.

No problem on the links. If you ever need a new one I imagine that both home power concepts and golfing will continue to be big things in the future, so you can always look there later!

I think I finally found the correct one.

http://www.interstatebatteries.com/estor...7CRank%7C1&js=1

I think I'll do some more looking to see what the other major brands have. Although that Optima 6 volt was looking pretty good with all of those cranking amps.

I'm going to apologize in advance to our dialupper friends.

http://harold.groupee.com/displayPHOTO_ALBUM/content/54469875413777004

Another day of fun.

http://harold.groupee.com/displayPHOTO_ALBUM/content/54751350406457967

What's dialupper mean?

one who does not use DSL and logs in via dial up

Trallyus should know.. He used to be a dialupper for quite a while, before he saw the light.

Ann and Joseph still use dial up last i heard

Which explains a lot!

Thanks for letting me know!

We can only hope that it goes the way of the do do bird...

Getting that engine to run could be quite the challenge, eh? At least that place has tons of parts though. That could be handy!

I'm saving some decent links here. All that I think I really have to do is get the ignition switch plumbed in.

Will you put it back on the floor?

Nope. I already had one for the 1969 Jeepster that I'm going to use. I just want to get it running decent. Looks are kind of secondary as far as an authentic restoration goes.

Finally found the part number for the NAPA oil filter.

FIL1100

http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NO...l+Filter+(Gold)

This is also the Wix 51100.

So far Autozone has the cheapest oil filter in a Fram C3.

Have you tried wally mart? They have some at decent prices.

It would have to be special order, the prices at Advanced Auto were pretty decent. The Fram filters aren't as good as the Wix/Napa brand. I picked up one at Napa today that had been collecting dust.

a friend of mine had an old Willys in high school, we blew up the battery in our faces trying to jump it off a 12v battery. we had a good laugh at our brilliance.

There was a news story on our local radio about 3 generations of one family getting together to restore one I think is similar to this. Korean war vintage I believe. They have it out in parades and say it can go as fast as 45 mph!

I still need to find the time to wire in the ignition switch and fire it up. But not on this two weeks of vacation.

Found the paint codes.

http://www.springbrookranch.com/CJ2A/cj2a_colors.htm

The one we need is the Normandy Blue.

I ordered two new tires and three inner tubes tonight from Coker Tire in TN. Also got in trouble with Lisa for not getting her permission before I used the check card.

These things cost more than the bigger tires on my pickup. There aren't made any more. The Coker Tire place specializes in making vintage tires.

Those look like the real thing.

They sure are.

The tires shipped from Chattanooga and FedEx will deliver them on Wednesday. The inner tubes shipped from Fresno and should show up on Friday. I hope I get home early enough by Saturday morning to get these mounted in town.

Have you got the engine to fire or did I miss that post?

I think the starter is seized up. I need to check that there is juice coming out out the solenoid to eliminate that. I'll probably get the starter rebuilt and reworked for 12 volt and do the 12 volt conversion. The solenoid was making it's usual noise along with the electric fuel pump running . That was all that I got. We'll try the pull starting too once I get air in all four tires.

I'm thinking with the money I'm going to have in this, I might as well get a title and put it on the road in a year or two.

Electric fuel pump in a '47? Wow...

We added that and the starter solenoid.

Ah. I remember my '76 Chevy had the old mechanical one.

Pertronix electronic ignition chart.

http://www.vintageperformance.com/retrorockets/jeep.htm

it's more fun when you can drive it.

Tell me about it. And to think that I'm not a mechanic. I just want to get the jeep back up in shape to where it should be so it can go another 60 years.

I got out the calculator last night and added up the parts on my wish list for this thing. I'm afraid to tell her it came to $1,700.00. I'm planning on picking up all this stuff on Saturday plus buying two more tires online.

Ugh. We got it moved. The engine came free after a little pulling.

Now the bad news: The clutch isn't working and the water pump needs replaced. I'll have to pull out the engine and then the clutch. Kyle and I are going to get a tow bar to bring it home to our place next weekend. Then we'll have to regroup and strategize our plans for the near future with this beast.

Those trannys are pretty bullet-proof. Think a clutch will be hard to replace?

It will just take some time and a hoist to pull out the engine. Then I have to get some parts and maybe have the flywheel turned, according to Dave. We have talked about this a little on my Groupee account.

http://harold.groupee.com

Wish list.... I would love to have a shop with a lift. I am getting too old to be crawling under vehicles anymore. I think they are almost affordible.

The way I would suggest you work the project is, to figure out what order you want to progress, then ask your son to work on it a little while you're at work. Let him do some of the 'grunt work', like cleaning stuff up, taking apart things you think he can handle. Then work together when you start installing new parts. That way maybe some work will get done quicker, but you'll be there to make sure the new stuff is installed correctly.

When I was a kid, I was hot rodding my uncle's old jeep in the fields. There was a few times I had that old jeep up on two wheels, nearly turning it over. They are fairly narrow and if you plan on letting your son drive it, I would suggest welding in a roll bar and installing seat belts.

The reverse lugs on the one side is way surprising. I'd like to know the theory behind that myself.

I'll never forget getting the surprise of my life working in a garage and finding out there were revese lugs on chryslers. I think it was a physics experiment to counteract the rotation of the wheel loosening the lugs on one side.

We got the engine pulled last night. Now we are off on a parts run.

Everything is documented at http://harold.groupee.com .

How did the parts run go? Were you able to get most of what you went after?

Yep. Between the Willys store, Napa, Autozone, and Advance, I'm getting everything. I just ordered a generator to alternator conversion bracket online tonight and I hope I'm done for a while. We just have to get the engine back in and plumb it all back together.

I am waiting on baited breath to hear if the Jeep started!!!!

No. It didn't. The starter cranks it over so fast that it has to have stuck valves. I think I'll be pulling the head and see what it is really doing. I also have a new carb to put on too.

Darn!

That's what I'll be thinking if it needs an engine rebuild.

Have you pulled a plug out and put your finger over the hole to see if it has compression? It should blow your finger away on the upstroke and suck it in on the downstroke. Tnen there should be a stroke that nothing happens when the valves are open.

Also, if you dump gas down the carb, it should show up as wet plugs after cranking it over for a few minutes. If not, it may have stuck valves.

I'll try that next. I'll have the time and energy to work on it this weekend. Thanks, Dave.

No compression?

Don't know yet for sure. I switched our efforts over to the tractor since I'll need it to plow snow, hopefully it won't snow that much too soon though.

Kyle did get another muffler clamp in the Jeep and is trying to get a new choke cable popped in this morning.

At least it's a project and not a vehicle you're relying on! That would make you yank on your hair!

I know. It's been fun so far.

I did the finger in the spark plug hole trick. The #1 cylinder is ok. On numbers 2, 3 and 4 the exhaust valves seem to be ok and the intakes weren't working. Also the #3 cylinder had much less compression than the other three.

I guess now we need to take off the head and probably the side cover for the the valve train or whatever that's called.

Oh, the valve cover. To you have the torque specs on the head bolts?

I have them some where. I guess I need some gaskets now.

We got the head off tonight. I'll be putting up a few pictures on my Groupee
account.

You know, it would be cool to do a rebuild on that engine. But that might be more than you want to get into. Are the intake valves stuck after all?

The intake valves are stuck on #2, #3, and #4. #3 also has the exhaust valve stuck. I'm soaking them in PB blaster and I hope they free up. If any need replaced or reground, I imagine the exhaust header will have to come off so we can see what is going on with the valve train.

Advance Auto has the head and push rod cover gaskets on order and they won't be in until the 19th. So I have nine days to get the valves going.

I don't trust myself enough to do a rebuild. I just want to do what it takes to get it running. The cylinders looked good to me and I'll be happy to leave them alone.

What do you think of the oil pump? Did the jeep have an oil pressure guage that showed any or did it look like any oil had been pumped through the block. I wonder if it has hydraulic lifters and wasn't getting any oil? Then the valves wouldn't work. Just thinking about what could be wrong.

Harold, I am afraid to say that at this point you might as well go all the way. Otherwise it will nickle and dime you to death not to mention the frustration factor of having to take things back apart again when the next problem pops up. I think you will also find out that a complete rebuild gasket set is cheaper in the long run too. But thats just my two cents.

The oil pressure went up really decent when cranking it over. I don't think it has hydraulic lifters.

The current plans are to pull the engine back out, take off the exhaust and intake manifolds, and then dig in on the valves this weekend. I might take it to a shop mechanic at work and get their opinion of the piston rings, bearings, and seals.

I think this engine is fairly solid, it still has standard size pistons with no sleeves after a rebuild. It only had a few years of use on a fresh rebuild before being parked for 20 years. I think we'll get lucky and only need to deal with the valves.

It probably pre-dates the plastic valve guide thing that killed Probester's old 72 Lincoln years ago.

IMO - If it doesn't have hydraulic lifters then the valves can only be stuck open.

If they don't open at all, something else is wrong, like lobe on cam worn off or broke, push rod bent, or valve broke.

There might be an inspection plate on the side of the motor where you can examine the valve springs. You might have luck putting some penetrating oil along the valve guides in that area too.

I'm beginning to think like Gort too.

The rebuild might not require new bearings or piston rings, but just taken apart and boiled to clean the block's oil ways and such, then re-assembled with new gaskets.

I'm like you and wouldn't want to take on a rebuild myself.

I've picked up the needed tools at our local Sears. I can open it up now and check the piston rings while I'm at it. We'll be looking at the bearings underneath too. I ordered an oil pan gasket to go along with the head and side gaskets that I'm getting this week.

We also got a 52 inch tool chest and cabinet combo this week cheap from TSC. The home tool storage that worked for me the last 20 years finally got out grown.

Hey, if you order from or buy tools at Sears, join the Craftsman Club. There is a web page with special deals on tools every month. I joined, just gave them my name and address, no charge, no gimmick that I've found.

Link to join below...

http://www.craftsman.com/craftsmanclub.html

Below is the catalog url for Dec, but I'm not sure you'll be able to see it...

Craftsman Club Catalog

I have the card in my wallet, though I don't use it that much. I probably have too many tools already.

It can't hurt to look at the catalog, though. Just to see what kind of trouble I might be capable of getting into.

Thanks, Dave!

I gotta tell you this whole thing, problems and all, sounds like lots of fun regardless to me.

It is so far. We got the engine yanked back out. All of the valves and cylinders are moving decent. There was oil in the exhaust pipe coming out of the engine. I'm thinking that means the piston rings are shot, especially since the engine was stuck when we started this deal.

I think I'll get a real mechanic to look at the valves and valve seats and get an opinion on what to do next.

I'm also willing to take more advice from Dave and Gort too.

Yeah, they know of what they speak! Er... Type!

Anyhow new piston rings might be easy enough but will you kave to hone the cylinder walls too?

At the least, I would have to knock the crud off at the top to slide out the pistons. I have a cylinder hone for that. The cylinder walls look pretty nice as far as I can tell.

Harold, I got thinking about that starter cranking over fast and my thoughts have turned to the timming chain, Oil in the exhaust sounds like the chain might be shot.
Dave What are your thoughts?

Gort, This is a later engine that should have timing gears. I didn't even think of this one.

I was only trying to give hints as to what would help maybe get it started.

Your own advice is the same as I would give at this point.

The expert advice that I got today was to replace every valve. I also found a sliver of what looked like a piston ring in the bottom of the oil pan when I dropped it. I got new rings, valves, a mechanical water temp gauge, and a parts list manual. Having exact sizes of all of the hardware and nice exploded views of everything is going to be great to have now.

After we got back from shopping in Toledo today, I got the rest of the valves out. Then my worst fear was realized. The #3 exhaust valve had been stuck up for a long time. The valve seat was pitted and rough. I'm going to get an estimate on having hardened valve seat inserts installed and maybe even have the whole engine gone through by the machine shop and see what they think. Now is going to be the best time to do this as one of you guys had said earlier. So much for hoping a cheap valve lapping job would get us up and running.

Have them get the pistons out and see if the cylinder walls are OK before they do any valve work. No need to do the vavles if the cylinder walls are scored beyond the limits of being bored out.

If it isn't one thing,
it's two!

I got one piston out. The walls didn't look too bad. I'm planning to get the other three out tomorrow. I'll also run the cylinder hone a little too. The one thing I liked was seeing that this engine still uses standard sized pistons.

Sooner or later, we'll get this thing running. Hopefully sooner. I wanted to play in the snow with this thing.

If I get lucky, the machine shop might be open on Monday and I can drop off this beast.

Oh, just remembered, when the engine is bored out that much, then it's time to throw in sleeves. I've also seen some really interesting fixes that involve welding on the block and using pins too.

NOT dialup friendly:

http://www.vimeo.com/449332

Computers and cameras. Nrxt thing you'll be using one of those newfangled tellyphones

Been there, done that.

Bleh. I stopped in at the machine shop on my way home. To get the valve seat seat inserts installed, they need a bare block. I was hoping to avoid a complete tear down. I'll have them go through everything else and then I'll go from there.

I guess I'll be getting that overhaul gasket set now.

Yay. But it will be a better running engine when it's all done.

Even to grind the original valve seats, I would think they would want a bare block. You can't have metal shavings in the cam bearing or anywhere else like oil galleys and such.

Is the reason you're wanting the new valve seats because of non-leaded gas, you think the originals are too bad or what?

Don't worry Harold, I learned Quantum Mechanics as a kid. After you do it four times, you find it easier to see the reasoning behind it.

...As you change the bandages on your hand after the quantum wrench slipped off the string theory nut!

Sorry... Couldn't resist!

Both for unleaded gas and a couple were pretty nasty from being stuck. I can see new hardened inserts and valves lasting a long time with proper care and love. The shop guy is going to go through everything and we'll put it back together at home.

Oh I love clean engine parts!!!!!!

Those are dirty and greasy. The shop is going to do the clean up job. We got everything out except for the distributor. I didn't want to break it since it seemed to be stuck.

THis is going to be quite a machine when it's all done I bet'cha.

All it's going to do is run. Then we'll fix the brakes. I'm still undecided about doing body work, though I would like to put some sort of snow blade on it. Maybe something homemade.

I just found out I don't have to tow or trailer the Jeep. I like this trick.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d55/boomerangsrd/Img_2521.jpg?t=1198550849

Wow, that looks like it would break the tailgate. Does your truck have cables or metal bars like that one does?

I'd be afraid to try it on our CK Chevy. I might see if our Mule will fit in the bed though, then I wouldn't have to borrow a trailer to take if for service.

Mine has cables for the tailgate. The pickup in the picture is a 3/4 ton 1972. Mine is a 3/4 ton 2002. The Jeep only weighs something like 2,200 pounds. What I like are the wood ramps to go over the wheel wells. The only thing I would need would be some long ramps since mine sits up so high with the stock super duty suspension.

I didn't see those ramps over the wheel wells. That looks like it would work pretty well. At least the light end of the Jeep is setting on the tailgate. That would help too.

I use a gulley/ditch and back my pickup down to the bottom of it and then load whatever from the other bank. Then the ramps don't have to be as long. Of course you'd have to find the same kind of place to unload then.

I'll bet there are some ATV ramps that would handle that much weight.

I've used our road ditch for my lawn mower before.

And on a related note, "oops". I forgot to drop off the new valves at the machine shop and they just called. After my current CSI episode goes off, I'll be running into town. I'm also uploading my first video to YouTube right now too, to see how everything works and looks.

Today's update.

http://harold.groupee.com/displayphotoalbum/content/66434598717618820

Photos from this weekend:

http://harold.groupee.com/displayphotoalbum/content/69108775228856435

Harold, It is almost time to sing that song.

This was the first version of that famous song by Johnny Cash.

I hear that motor rumblin, It's startin up again. I haven't heard that sweet sound since, I don't know when.

That Wily's just a screamin, there's fire underneath the hood.

Its purrin like a kitten. (sing lower) Just like I knew it would.

Gort, I hope you're right. I'm just a little worried the engine might be too tight now and not turn over.

What would make you feel that way?
Because of the new parts or did something not go together right?
I thought you had a new starter already, it should do the job.

sometimes when you build an engine you relate tightness to how well worn the engine was when you took it apart. A new engine is going to be not as easy to turn over by hand. I hope I am saying that right Dave.

I did have the pistons in backwards to start. Then I flipped them back the correct way and it was better. I also like to worry and think too much.

Something like the pistons in backwards
would make one tend to worry and think too much!

Harold, This is your Jeep speaking! I feel incomplete! whats going on? I thought you loved me. I am waiting for you to finish me off and start me up! Where are You? It's cold in the garage.

I have the heat on out there and I'm taking a break from my old friend. Maybe later. I have some other stuff to fool with. I might have gotten burned out on it when it didn't start.

Harold, I have had my nightmares with rebuilds. I found it was good to take a break too. Sometimes it was the simplest thing that I overlooked because I had gotten so wrapped up in getting it going. I remember finding out that I had replaced the old condenser with the old condenser and it was shot. Put the new one in and it fired right off. I was ready to rip it a part. But sometimes you just gotta sit back and do the systematic troubleshooting. I also have had my fair share of finding out that a certain year had a different firing order and I wasn't even close. I have been 180 off on the distributor and drove myself nuts trying to understand why it wouldn't fire. Anyway just take a deep breath, get a drink, and sit down and go over all the things that could be wrong and try the simple fixes first. You might be surprised and find an easy fix.

I don't know how much help I would be, but feel free to ask when you get around to it, and I will do what I can to help. I am sure that Dave will do the same.

I''l do that. Thanks, Gort.

aint Mech-a-nanic-in fun Harold ????

At least your having a good time !

I was until it wouldn't start!

You'll get it started Harold. You just gotta take a break when it starts frustrating you

I think he forgot the hand crank

There is the hand crank nut on the crank. It also will take a 1 3/8th's socket, which I do have.

Remember Righty Tighty Lefty loosy.

Oh Wait that is the crank nut it might go the other way.

Help me Mr. Wizzard!!!!! Oh wait.. he's gone Maybe I can get the wizzard from the Alltel commercials... Then again I think not.

I've done the same thing with the 56 too Harold.

My brother-in-law redone it, brought it down on a trailer and we drove it that night and the next day to town to get the title changed to a KY title. We couldn't get it done and when I drove the car back home, it wouldn't make it up the drive way and died in the driveway.

We've done everything to it while he was still here and couldn't ever get it to fire a lick. Since he went home, we've ordered a new electronic distributor and coil and put them on, still no fire. It's getting plenty of gas, no spark.

I've got the car in my garage and I've left it alone till another buddy came down from IN and thought he knew what was wrong. We went out and used a test light to make sure it was getting power and went through everything again. Still no spark.

I've left it alone again for another month. Today, I ordered a new single point distributor and new coil to try from Summit Racing.

It makes a pretty car to sit in the garage, but I want to drive it now that we've spent so much money on it.

Sometimes I wake up at night thinking about it, I get up go out there and try something, but no luck, it makes me sick to my stomach.

Dave, I had a Plymouth Duster almost make me give up working on cars. They had a white resister bar on the firewall and when it went bad it would not run. Drove me and my boss completely crazy.
Took someone who had it happen to them to point it out to us.Changed it out and bingo.

I also had a chevy that had a bad ignition switch, that gave me a fit. I never thought to check that. It was the last thing I checked and that's what it was.

Two other 'car guys' and myself have used the test light, we've hot wired the car, charged the battery, done everything each of us know to do and can't get it running. If this new distributor and coil doesn't fix it, I will have to take it to someone for them to fix it.

I should have the new parts in about 3 or 4 days, so I'll know if it was the problem soon.

And man those old dogdes were easy to hot wire
I had a 69 400ci superbee , I had to hot wire when the wiring harness burnt . Nothing like being on a date and opening the hood and hooking up the aligator clips , shut hood crawl under the car with a screwdriver and hitting the + & - terminals together to fire it up ......... LOL

Sounds like a ground problem KY, sometimes its the simplest things .

Gort, I had the same ballast resistor on a 1978 D100 Dodge pickup with a 318. It would need to be replaced every year. It sucked.

Dave, I thought I had posted here earlier, but I don't see my reply to you. I have read somewhere that the spring going weak in the distributor can cause your situation.

I don't know what is wrong yet. The motor turns over with the starter, so the ground should be fairly good. We bought a new electronic distributor, so I don't know how it could have been bad.

I'm going back to what I know how to work on. A distributor with a set of points and a new coil, both ACCEL products listed below are on their way to my house.

Accel Distributor Single Point

Accel Super Coil

Hey Dave, Get that distributor yet?

Yep, it came in about a week ago, Accel Distributor with an Accel Super Coil. I waited until my son and his family came over last night before working on it today.

We had breakfast this morning and then went out to the garage and took out the old parts. We had a little trouble dropping the new distributor in while aligning the oil pump shaft, but after about a half hour had the distributor in. We had to change all the plug wires and get them in the proper order. We mounted the coil to the firewall, ran all the wires and tried to start the car. The battery was too low, so we put the charger on it and took a ride in the Mule around the farm. We came back in a half hour and tried the car again. It didn't start. I turned the distributor a little and we tried it again and it fired up and ran. That was a moment I had waited on for a while. I moved the distributor slightly and it smoothed out. We shut the car off and finished hooking up the wires permanently. Then started it a few more times. We're waiting till tomorrow to take the car for a ride as it was raining today and we didn't want to take it out of the garage.

Brent and I were both relieved when the car started and ran. It made our day!

It's VERY cool to hear that! I think I'm waiting for it to warm up before I start in on the Jeep again.

Cool Dave!

Your next Harold! Instead of spring fever I am sure your starting to have willy fever.

My willy is sick all right.

We can get Trallyus to dress up in a nurses outfit and power stroke it.

Cool!!! My Jeep is getting a diesel implant!